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Forfatter Emne: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"  (Læst 8122 gange)
PhilipFlink
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"The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« : 06 Nov 2013, 15:41 »

Jeg fandt denne "guide", eller hvad man skal kalde det - og finder de ting han skriver meget interessant. De ting han skriver sker - Meget, måske ikke altid - i mine spil & tænkte at det måske også sker i jeres spil. Derfor ville jeg lige dele denne "guide" med jer.

The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide (painfully long)
Hi all,

So last year I posted a long, well documented, and thorough review of the ME deficiencies in FM 13 when it launched, and supported it with testing and what documentation I could, and people still jumped down my throat for criticizing their beloved SI.

So this year I'm doing something different. There are a lot of problems with the ME, and people are frustrated, but rather than stand up and demand that SI fix it (they are working on it, one presumes), we will go the other route, and ADAPT to the weirdness. A warning, this might get long.

Problem: my striker doesn't score, and finishes even the games I win with a 6.1 rating.

Solution: There is no "solution" to this exactly. What happened, basically, is that it became clear early on that tackling, particularly along the flanks, is totally borked. WAY too many goals were flying in, and so they made strikers less accurate. Now, when on the edge of the box and nobody between him and the keeper, a striker will immediately pull up and shoot over the bar from 17 yards, rather than dribble forwards and finish easily. SI has actually stated that they considered fixing this, but can't, because it will result in too many goals.

What it means for us: You need to give up on your striker scoring. Strikers still have a place in the game, preserving a shape the ME likes, and creating chances for your wingers and AMC. The key is to play him as a target man, DLF, or F9 with "support".

I am having the most success with big target men. The primary reason for this is that with the matador defending on the wings, wingers have all the time they need to dribble down the flanks and loft crosses into the box. Drilling crosses doesn't work (it never has, with the notable exception of crossing when on the counter, which is brilliant), but floating them to my massive target man does, who can lay off for the only people can score in the years ME, wingers and men in the hole.

So get yourself a Llorente, a Giroud, etc. In my experience so far, the single best striker in this year's game is Hugo Almeida. He is an absolute beast.


Problem: My fullbacks defending is making me literally suicidal.

Solution: There isn't one exactly. This was actually a bit of a problem last year, but by setting the tackling and closing down sliders very, very carefully, (and usually less aggressive than most tactics published here had them) one could overcome it quite well. Of course, no sliders now, so we need another solution. And it turns out there are actually 2. First, you can eliminate them. One thing that the ME does MUCH better than in previous years is the old Barcelona trick: fullbacks bomb forward, central defenders move wide to cover that space, and the holding midfielders drop deep to protect the net.

CD's will move wide very intelligently in this year's game, and you can use this to your advantage. I even experimented with a formation that had 2 CD's, no fullbacks, and no wingbacks. 2 at the back! And while it totally messed up my possession game, my defending the wings actually got MUCH BETTER.

Besides eliminating them, the other thing you can do is embrace the striker problem that we spoke about in the previous problem. Your striker stops at the edge of the 18 yard box when he's wide open? SO DOES THIERS. So the answer becomes: let them shoot. My Athletico save did not lose to barcelona in 4 meetings. How? Simple: "Stand off opponents", "Stay on feet". Watching Messi dazzle with his footwork, humiliate my back line, and then stop dead and fire wide 13 times a match was a thing of beauty.

Remember, your defenders aren't going to tackle anyway, why not adapt your tactic to stop asking them to?

What this means to us: Your fullbacks can't defend. At all. Stop buying pullbacks with good defensive attributes. They can still provide width and crossing, and do so brilliantly. In with the Juanfrans and Dennis Aogo's of the world. They are now worth every penny.



Problem: I have amazing defenders, but they still can't keep anyone in front of them.

Solution: There really is no solution to this. Once a competent striker has the ball at his feet, you're not getting it back until he misses his shot. Does your CD have 18/18 for marking and tackling, the ME doesn't care, and neither should you.

This actually brings up a common misconception I see on these boards. The Marking attribute isn't what many of you think it is. Read: Marking ...Indicates the player's ability to stay on an opponent. A high Marking attribute will offset the opponent's Dribbling attribute (though the Dribbling attribute tends to win if they're equal or close)."

So when you see that winger wide open at the far post and you say, but "I have an 17 marking? Whose marking him?!?!" THAT'S NOT MARKING, THAT'S POSITIONING! Marking is only for when the defender's man has the ball! Read: "A player with high Positioning will be better at intercepting passes or setting up to mark attacking players before the ball gets there."

That's right, in FM positioning is marking, and marking is frankly not all that important, particularly this year.

Anyway, our solution is to get defenders with attributes that actually matter in this ME. We can't get the ball off the opponent, so we need to deny it to him. Start looking at Positioning and Anticipation above all else. Out, Kyriakos Papadopolous, in Andrea Barzagli, the god of centerbacks in this ME.


Problem: My "Shoots from distance" players are destroying my tactic!

Solution: After almost getting a handle on Shoots from distance in FM13, the madding PM is back with a vengeance this year. And there is no solution, but I did make a few interesting discoveries about it.

I almost always watch my matches on "comprehensive", but when I'm testing a crazy tactic, sometimes I'll speed through it. And I noticed that my side had 9 corners in the first 7 Minutes of a match. Since this wasn't a tactic that relied heavily on wide players, I wondered what was going on. And it turns out that in this ME, the large majority of corners are generated when the keeper tips the ball wide, or over the bar.

And one thing we know about this ME is that there is still plenty of opportunity to score from corners. So one of my favorite tactics in a long time came into being. It involved quick tempo (which increases shots from distance), short passing (more possession equals more shots from outside the 18 yard box) and the "shoot on sight" instruction, which no one ever uses. Add the strategic signing of a few "shoots from distance" shameless gunners, and viola! My personal record is 51 shots on goal. But a funny thing happened, which is this tactic won kind of a lot.

My theory is that the ME gives a match rating boost to anyone who puts a shot on target. If you're shooting and failing to score, but the keeper is saving them, your players ratings start to creep up, and the ME says "this player is having a good game" his moral and confidence skyrockets, and lo and behold, he bags you a goal.

This is only a theory, but spare a moment for shooting from distance next time. It can work better than you think, and it will generate you a few extra corners to take advantage of at worst.

Problem: Where are the 4 and 5 star coaches?

Solution: They are out there. They are mostly brazilian, and they are mostly goalkeeping and fitness coaches. Always remember, you can bribe coaches and scouts. Want to sign the brilliant Alexandre Ceolin as a scout, but his interest is "none"? Double his wages and he'll sign anyway. Need an attacking coach but Fabio Majaseredjian only wants to coach goalies? Triple his wages and he'll coach anything you want. As Brazilian coaches tend not to make much money, this is an affordable way to get that top notch coaching staff you've had in previous years.


A few more quick notes on players this year:

With tackling removed this year, the single best PM is "runs with ball often" by a mile. I love Frank Ribery, but I'll have nightmares about the last time my Shaktar save faced Bayern. And with Dribblers, remember: BALANCE.
Read: "Indicates the player's ability to remain standing when challenged by a tackle, or after landing when jumping for a header in a congested area. When dribbling, Balance also indicates how well the player can maintain his balance while doing any given maneuver. Players with low Balance won't just spontaneously trip and fall, but they will slow down significantly if they change directions."

Dribbling + pace + balance = completely unstoppable right now.


Remember, when the ME is still up in the air, teamtalks are your most important weapon. And what makes a good teamtalk? Players with high teamwork. Read: "Players with high Teamwork skills are also more likely to follow tactics without going off on their own, and are more likely to be influenced by pep talks."

Finally, this has been true for years, and while I haven't got the numbers for this year yet, it appears as true as ever: ALWAYS USE THE ATTACKING MOVEMENT MATCH PREP. Doesn't matter the context. Attacking movement always produces the best goal differential over time.



Finally, I know there are those of you just itching to jump on this thread to say "I'm not having a problem with the new ME! I Love it. I've only conceded 4 goals in the league."

To them I say: Thank you in advance for you contribution to this thread. I wasn't talking to you. Of course I wasn't. After all, your Football Manager e-peen is so enormous, we all just took it for granted that you didn't have any problems. This thread was meant for everyone EXCEPT you.

SI will eventually iron out the ME, because they usually do, but until then, maybe this can help us enjoy this a little more. After all, what are we going to do, stop playing? hah!


LINK: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2014-discussion/145744-football-manager-14-match-engine-survival-guide-painfully-long.html
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-KNM-
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #1: 06 Nov 2013, 18:09 »

interessant indlæg. Godt fundet
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bromberg
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« Svar #2: 06 Nov 2013, 18:45 »

Jeg er nu ret enig i de ting den artikel belyser, men for pokker det er en sørgelig tilgang at gå til en nyt længe ventet spil..

Jeg har for nu lagt spillet på hylden. Jeg kan nu godt få mine resultater, men på en måde jeg syntes ødelægger fornøjelsen for mig ift et længerevarende og dybdegående spil.
Så gerne en patch allerede i aften:-)
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xaagaard
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« Svar #3: 06 Nov 2013, 18:59 »

Kan godt se nogle af pointerne, men synes det er en ALT for pessimistisk tilgang til tingene! Jeg nogle af pointerne, f.eks. vedr. backs, er alt for grov - jeg har i hvert fald ikke samme erfaringer. Er ligeledes i tvivl om hvor meget det handler om hans egne opfattelser af spillet.

Er enig i at det er en sørgelig tilgang at gå til spillet med. Jeg har nu læst artiklen, jeg tager nogle af pointerne med hvis jeg støder på lignende problemer, men retter mig ikke efter den, da det ville afskrække mig fra flere måder at spille spillet på. Jeg synes bare man skal prøve sig frem, gøre sig sine egne erfaringer og strikke den taktik sammen man selv ønsker - ligesom i alle de tidligere spil.
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bromberg
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« Svar #4: 06 Nov 2013, 19:30 »

Det er jeg helt enig i xaagaard..

Jeg føler mig ret overbevist om at ME ændrer sig markant ved næste patch..

Derfor har jeg mit Juve spil som sjov, jeg kan rode lidt med.
Derefter skal der et godt solidt spil igang..

Ineffektivitet og indianer bold er 2 parametre jeg ikke kan tweake mig ud af.. Det frustrerer mig i længden må jeg indrømme..
Så det kan kun blive lidt lala fra min side pt..
Men for pokker jeg brænder efter at komme igang, med en genopbygning af Inter:-)
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arsenalgud
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« Svar #5: 06 Nov 2013, 19:55 »

Synes godt nok mange har en "åh nej, nu blev det sværere tilgang".. Ja, der lidt fejl, men jeg tror nu også at dele er dem er helt bevidst og ikke bliver rettet.. Prøv jer frem. Jeg har revet mig selv i håret aften efter aften, grundet manglende succes, men nu ser det ud til at jeg så småt har fundet en stabil måde at spille på - selv med den nuværende ME.
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bromberg
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #6: 06 Nov 2013, 20:58 »

Det der i det her tilfælde altid frustrerer mig er at spillet starter et sted for at ende et helt andet sted.
Det er nu nok en logisk proces.
Det der blir lidt tungt i længden er at det sådan set er de start knuder samme år efter år.
Det er trist at man skal opfinde noget nyt hvert år, fordi si beslutter at det er det smarte i år.
Lige med så mange andre spil end manager, kan det sikkert have sin charme.
Men fodbold er ku engang ganske universelt og ændringer i fodboldkultur og fodboldtænkningen sker over længere perioder.
Ikke sæson efter sæson. For mit vedkommende er der en ny aha oplevelse hver år ved udgivelse.

En aha oplevelse jeg kan krølle sammen efter patch 2, for der finder spille et leje de fleste er tilfredse med.

Så jeg ser det lidt som gengangere af fejl der nok skal rettes til, mere end der er nye tanker bag hele spillet.

I år er dog for mig undtagelsen langt hen af vejen.
Her virker det netop som om der virkelig er rystet pose, men man står tilbage med de samme frustrationsemner (som for mig er udskarphed og ordentligt presspil).
Men efter at have læst en del om det nu, har jeg mere eller mindre accepteret at det må være sådan, da si erkender det og ser det som nødvendighed for ikke at angriber e bliver overmenneskelige..
En lille ændring vælter nok helt enorme mængder andre data.

Det ændrer dog ikke på jeg syntes vi starter et sted og slutter et andet:-) år efter år
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g00n
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #7: 06 Nov 2013, 21:41 »

Sikke en gang whine. Uden tvivl er nogle af punkterne valide nok, men når det hele er sovset ind i sådan en gang ynk, virker det bare useriøst. Det med at det er umuligt at få angriberne til at score, så det kan man ligeså godt opgive, det er jo bare bullcrap. Læser man bare lidt inde på SI Games forum er der masser der sagtens kan få deres angribere til at score masser af mål.

Hele indlægget lugter lidt for meget af "JEG kan ikke finde ud af at få mine spillere til at gøre hvad jeg synes de skal, JEG synes det er for svært, så derfor er spillet og ME'en ubrugelig for ALLE, og I burde ALLE derfor gøre sådan her".
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PhilipFlink
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #8: 06 Nov 2013, 21:47 »

Sikke en gang whine. Uden tvivl er nogle af punkterne valide nok, men når det hele er sovset ind i sådan en gang ynk, virker det bare useriøst. Det med at det er umuligt at få angriberne til at score, så det kan man ligeså godt opgive, det er jo bare bullcrap. Læser man bare lidt inde på SI Games forum er der masser der sagtens kan få deres angribere til at score masser af mål.

Hele indlægget lugter lidt for meget af "JEG kan ikke finde ud af at få mine spillere til at gøre hvad jeg synes de skal, JEG synes det er for svært, så derfor er spillet og ME'en ubrugelig for ALLE, og I burde ALLE derfor gøre sådan her".

Jeg oplever rigtig mange gange alle disse punkter, derfor jeg fandt det interessant. Men nej, det er jo ikke bare lige til det han skriver, man kan godt få sin angriber til at scorer - Ham her er dog ikke bare en "whiner" inde på disse forum og plejer at gå meget dybt i de ting han laver, og jeg er meget enig i alt det han skriver. Det er dog ikke 100% altid.

Især angriber, fullbacks, & at folk sparker fra mærkelig punkter. Ideén med denne post var egentlig hvis man havde de problemer han skriver om (Mig selv inkluderet) at man måske kunne prøve de ting han skriver kan være en løsning.
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Jimko18
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #9: 06 Nov 2013, 22:53 »

Det kan da godt være, at indlægget her er en gang whine.. tror dog at der er mange der har samme opfattelse jeg ved jeg selv har. Jeg virkelig prøvet og prøvet med mange forskellige tilgange til spille rent taktisk, og har da også fået en taktik til at virke formidabelt i 10 kampe , hvor jeg vandt og derefter bare kollapsede og endte med jeg ikke vandt en kamp igen før jeg blev så irriteret at jeg stoppede spillet..

Der er mange der har nævnt her inde, at fm 14 har mistet sin plug-and-play måde at spille på og det vil jeg give dem ret i, jeg nød før "bare" at udarbejde en taktik der virkede og så spille mine kampe. Det er desværre som om dette ikke er nok mere og dette syntes jeg er ærgeligt.

Jeg giver manden ret i mange punkter og Pt. er spillet ikke spilbart for mig netop som Bromberg skriver, jeg bliver "tvunget" til at spille på en måde jeg ikke syntes er sjovt.. håber det hele bliver bedre i løbet af et par patches , er dog stadig forbløffet over man ikke kan lave et FM spil der virker fra starten af...
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Phata
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #10: 06 Nov 2013, 23:09 »

Der er mange der har nævnt her inde, at fm 14 har mistet sin plug-and-play måde at spille på og det vil jeg give dem ret i, jeg nød før "bare" at udarbejde en taktik der virkede og så spille mine kampe. Det er desværre som om dette ikke er nok mere og dette syntes jeg er ærgeligt.

Jeg giver manden ret i mange punkter og Pt. er spillet ikke spilbart for mig netop som Bromberg skriver, jeg bliver "tvunget" til at spille på en måde jeg ikke syntes er sjovt.. håber det hele bliver bedre i løbet af et par patches , er dog stadig forbløffet over man ikke kan lave et FM spil der virker fra starten af...

Ikke at jeg har lyst til at forsvare Si-games, men FM14 er stadigvæk et nemt spil, som ikke kræver meget tid at finde ud af. Jeg kan sige at jeg har brugt den samme taktik siden FM10 og den virker stadigvæk i FM11, FM12, FM13 også i FM14.

Hvorvidt spillet er spilbart, så finder jeg den meget spilbar. Økonomi delen er blevet lidt bedre, taktik delen meget bedre. Finder det også nemmer at få andre til at lave mål nu, så man ikke altid ender med en angriber som laver over 60% af dine mål. Altså jeg er fint tilfreds med de 25+ mål Lewandoski får lavet som skrapretter.

Den blog eller whatever det her indlæg kommer fra, er dog whine af værste skuffe. Vi høre på den samme sang, år efter år. Det bliver så glemt til det tidspunkt FM15 kommer ud, for så høre vi den samme sang endnu engang.

Hans kommentar om at dem som faktisk godt kan få deres hold til at spille, ikke må kommenter på hans indlæg viser jo bare netop, hvor meget det faktisk bare er whine med et bare gode råd.

Citat
Finally, I know there are those of you just itching to jump on this thread to say "I'm not having a problem with the new ME! I Love it. I've only conceded 4 goals in the league."

To them I say: Thank you in advance for you contribution to this thread. I wasn't talking to you. Of course I wasn't. After all, your Football Manager e-peen is so enormous, we all just took it for granted that you didn't have any problems. This thread was meant for everyone EXCEPT you.
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PhilipFlink
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #11: 06 Nov 2013, 23:26 »



Den blog eller whatever det her indlæg kommer fra, er dog whine af værste skuffe. Vi høre på den samme sang, år efter år. Det bliver så glemt til det tidspunkt FM15 kommer ud, for så høre vi den samme sang endnu engang.

Hans kommentar om at dem som faktisk godt kan få deres hold til at spille, ikke må kommenter på hans indlæg viser jo bare netop, hvor meget det faktisk bare er whine med et bare gode råd.


Som jeg skrev før - Vil dog ikke skrive det hele tiden Wink - så sker der de samme ting i mit spil. Jeg synes ikke det her er at whine, og hvis man går ind i linket, så skriver han nogle kommentare som SI Games er kommet ud med, hvad de gerne vil fikse - Og der er nogle af de ting, som han sætter i punkter, noget af det de prøver at ændre. Jeg er ikke 100% enig i det han skriver, men jer er langt fra uenig.

"The other thing I'll add is that there is a post on the SI forums in which and SI employee says "We're having problems with strikers not scoring and tacking from fullbacks" Seriously. Someone linked to it on a thread right here. So YOU'RE not having these issues, only Sport Interactive is? Now that IS impressive!

Edit: Here is what I was referencing:

"Dealing with the issues:

1) Poor defending - we're aware of defender's failing to put a foot in often, instead they jockey lots. We're working on a fix for this, but it's complicated by the fact that our tackle stats are already too high compared to reality. We're working on improving block shots and jockeying to force attackers back. In these instances we now only really need the very worst examples of this uploaded as PKMs with times too.

2) Shooting from daft angles - Also something we're aware of and working on. In these cases we need as many examples as possible. Januzaj's one from fruitavelli was a good example.

3) Buying a corner/throw in off legs of defender - Again, we're aware that this may be overused in matches. Any examples would be appreciated.

4) Low corners to near post - A known issue and one we're working on. No further examples of this are needed.

5) keeper distribution - This is a tricky one because in certain circumstances the goalkeeper will distribute as intended. What we need here is PKMs and timed examples of when a goalie is ignoring his instructions."

and also

"the main thing we're missing is the physical battles that real life defending involves. Easing players off the ball with a shoulder challenge and so on. We're working on this constantly.

We are aware of issues with shooting. We believe finishing of simple chances may need improving, but this will have to be counterbalanced so as not to overload the ME with too many goals.""

Her er det jeg snakkede om - Som SI selv skriver. Så helt "whining" er det heller ikke Smiley
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bromberg
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #12: 06 Nov 2013, 23:32 »

Først, ja der whines da.

Dernæst, kan jeg hvert år undre mig over de taktikker i er nogle der siger altid virker igennem flere sæsoner.

Grunden til min undring er den (for mig ihvertfald) store ændring der fra udgivelse til 2 patch. Det undrer mig at jeres spil ikke falder sammen der.
Men når det er sagt er det nok langt hen af vejen også et spørgsmål om personlig filosofi.
Jeg selv er aldrig blevet tilfreds med mine taktikker når jeg forsøger mig meget kreativt.
Kontrolleret og små stringent er nok sådan jeg tænker taktikker.

Så mit gæt vil være at nogle taktikker er store ofre når nyt spil udkommer frem for andre.

Lad mig i samme omgang lige sige at jeg har 2 spil kørende som jeg ellers resultatmæssigt bær være tilfreds med
- første spil er Juve hvor jeg har spillet 26 kampe og lukket 7 mål ind. Til gengæld er jeg ikke effektiv oppe foran. +20 chancer og gerne op mod 40.
Min topscorer et quagliarella med 8 mål.
Men en betonsolid defensiv.

Næste spil er i Newcastle, hvor jeg ligger nr 1 efter 20 kampe.
Scorer få mål. Topscorer cisse 18/13 k/m.
Det er jo acceptabelt. Igen en masse chancer og få mål.
Oftest scores ved klumpspil.

Uanset modstander og liga har de kampe jeg er involveret i + 50 chancer. Det er en pr 1.5 minut??

Så for mit vedkommende kan jeg sagtens skaffe resultaterne, men bestemt ikke på en måde hvor jeg finder ME underholdende.

Igen igen, så skal jeg nok få mig en masse gode spil igen i år, for jeg er 100% sikker på si ved hvor de vil hen med ME og hvor de er pt.
Det er efterhånden almen kendt jo.

Jeg ville rigtig gerne høre lidt mere detaljeret om jeres taktikker, når de kan "overleve" så mange udgaver og ikke mindst fra spillet udgives til 2 patch.
« Seneste Redigering: 06 Nov 2013, 23:37 af bromberg » Logged

g00n
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #13: 07 Nov 2013, 08:30 »

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NAsMaR
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Sv: "The FM 14 Match Engine Survival Guide"
« Svar #14: 07 Nov 2013, 09:00 »

Jeg forstår godt folks frustrationer, for spillet kørte langt bedre og mere logisk i Beta'en. Jeg nægter simpelthen at tro at det er meningen det skal køre som det gør nu.

Bare det at det er en umulighed at få en rating over 8 på en sæson, burde være nok til at se at noget er galt. Et eksempel var Van Persie der havde scoret 35 mål i 30 kampe, og havde en rating på 7,25 - Det giver i min verden ingen mening, hvis det er ud af en 10-skala.
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